Coping With Grief: How to Give Yourself Permission to Feel Featuring Danielle Benzon

Hey everybody, are you having a great day? Yes! Oh no, you're not? It's okay, I got you.

I'm Tif Loeffler. Welcome to Positively Yours. I'm going to share Tif's tips, techniques,

and a little bit of magic to help you up-level and have a great day every day. Are you ready

to get started? Yeah! Oh, you're not? That's okay, I still got you. Let's go.

And hello everyone. I must say that this is an episode that I wished I had never had to even

think about. And today's topic is going to be about grief. I think that the most important tip

that I could ever give you helps tie into the relationship that I have with my co-host,

Danielle, for this season. Because I have been, and already, everybody, I've got my box of tissues

ready. It is the reminder, the gentle reminder, that we truly must give ourselves time to be.

And I feel this ties in beautifully to the tip that was given to me by Danielle,

and it is this, is that when you need to rest, you simply rest. When that time arrives,

and now I'm going to bring that into the realm of when there is a time where this is not,

tips for when you're not having quite such a great day. Now we have gone all the way to,

this is the worst day of my life, and I don't know how I am possibly going to get through it.

You have every right to claim for yourself that space to actually grieve. I find it almost

ridiculous that I have to say out loud that we must give ourselves permission to grieve.

And why I say that is because the confounding part about grief to me is that it is

completely universal. Nobody can escape leaving the planet. That's just, we arrive and we leave.

And also, unless you are a complete robot, or maybe robots even have feelings,

you are going to experience moments where the grief is going to overtake you.

Because that just seems to be the nature of grief as I've been experiencing it.

And so my tip for you is to please give yourself permission. And if you simply even need to say

out loud, you know, because Tif said so. Tif said that I could take permission to have an ugly

cry or scream out loud or yell blankety blank, blank, blank. I get to do that because I'm taking

the time because it is happening. And that is my tip for you, if I could use that. Yes,

the tip for today is please give yourself permission to feel the feels. And on that note,

I have all the feels for Danielle Benzon, who is here with me this season. And I really appreciate

that she was willing to go on this journey with me talking about grief. So Danielle,

I just wanted to thank you so much for being here today with me.

Aw, thank you for having me. It's an important topic, this.

It is. And again, as I said before, and I feel it bears repeating that everybody,

it's it's so universal. And also, everybody goes through their own grieving differently for

each time you're grieving. It doesn't look the same for everyone. But there are some similarities.

But also if I don't know, go ahead. Jump in. It doesn't always have to be grief, too. I mean,

I have experienced grief. But I think also, there are other things that happen. I'm a depressive. I

have had very serious depressive episodes that had nothing to do with grief. So I think also,

like all of those negative emotions, I kind of feel because some people like, oh, grief is okay,

but depression isn't, you know, and I don't want to have any of that. No elitism.

Gotcha. You know, any sort of any time you are feeling pain, emotional pain,

it's valid. And we need to acknowledge it in order to move through it. We cannot move through it if

we're in denial. So it is important to, you know, know, and it's okay. Yeah, even if you have to say

Tif said so. Or Danielle said so. That's right. You know? Yeah, I'm so glad that and here's the

other thing, people can disagree on how they're dealing with their grief. And that's okay, too.

Not that I think we haven't, but you never know. But I love that we are together on this journey,

not only as that I get to be your client, and you're my mentor, and also we are friends. And

I really appreciate how you've been there for me throughout this. And so let me know whatever you

feel comfortable sharing, Danielle about. Yeah, I'm open book. Okay, cool. Because I'm, yeah,

I'm gonna just jump right in and say up until, you know, a certain point in my life, yes,

I experienced grief. It was the, when I was very little, there were,

it's just very interesting, because when I was very little, there were little children who had

died. And, and I, wow, it's just saying that right now, like, huh, I remember my first remembrance

of someone passing away was my mom's uncle. And, and I, I was on a walk with some family,

and I ran to the house, and she was crying, because she had just found out. And I remember

being little four year old, consoling her. And that has never left me. And then,

throughout my life, it has been the times when, of course, our relatives, our family, our friends,

they, they, they get older, and they pass away. And it's kind of the natural progression, right?

And it's just the going through the funeral and the grieving. Yes, exactly the circle of life.

Once in a while, there would be something, there was a girl that, and this was when I was in my

early twenties, and we had just become friends. And, and she had gotten very sick. And she had

died suddenly, and she was only 23 years old. And I felt so devastated. And it's interesting when

people make judgments on you. And I think maybe I'm just going to jump right into the judgments

other people make when you're grieving. Because I was there, just, I was very sad. And, and all

I got from people were, well, you just knew, you just met her, like, basically, what's wrong with

you? Get yourself together. And I'm sure I was grieving. How dare you have feelings? How, well,

how dare you care about someone after only knowing them for just a little bit? And, right? I was like,

okay. Conversely, I had a piano teacher. Oh, Sister St. Augustine, I wish I had stuck with

the piano. But she's such a lovely soul. And I visited her from time to time. And she lived to

be a hundred. And then she, she passed shortly thereafter. And I remember being very, very sad

about it. I'll say upset. And then someone said to me, what's basically what's wrong with you? She

lived to be a hundred. What are you upset about? I mean, in quite so many words. And, and I, I kind

of preface the, the, what I really am here talking about is there are moments, and then there are

moments that are in that forever realm. And I experienced that on the morning of March 28, 2024.

The night before, I was at the Ball of America. The reason I say that is because I was having

such a fun day. Because I didn't realize that at the Lego store, they had these build and take,

you could build a little, they had a little car, you could build a little car. I'm like,

what are you kidding me? It's like the greatest day ever. It's just, you know, random thing. And

then I went up to the Crayola store. And I bought some, my, my youngest brother asked me if I could

get him, I think they were some, some markers. I'm like, sure. I got the markers. And I was all

excited, you know, such a great day. And I was especially excited about the Legos. And I couldn't

wait to tell my younger brother, he lived in Florida, by the time I got home, it was really

late at night. But I was telling it to my youngest brother, I said, Oh, my gosh, it's so cool about

Legos. I can't wait to tell Cort. And the morning and the next morning, Theron, my youngest brother

woke me up and said, on my brother Cort's Apple phone, it said that he had suffered a fall.

And he was not getting up. And I do find technology. So amazing. The paramedics were

called from the Apple watch. Wow. In fact, as a friend was driving over to check the ambulance

was already on its way to the hospital. On that morning, my brother, yeah, I just really think

it is. And, and I think I'll add to that, that caused one of my relatives to then get an Apple

watch. And one of his children had been begging him to get one for that very purpose. And you know

what? There you go. It's, it was, my brother dropped his wife off to go she was going on a trip.

And he kissed her goodbye. And this was very early in the morning. And then he went and took care of

their animals on he they had a ranch in Florida. And he went inside to make a cup of coffee. And

that is where he was found. And they took him to the hospital. And at that time, we were already

making plans to drive or to fly to Florida. Because we didn't know. And then his father in law

had to tell us that he died. And the first word out of my mouth was no, no, no, no. And I ran out

of the house. And and it's interesting, I can say that without I just and so that's those are those

are some facts. Some feelings were that I hadn't my family, we are very close family. In fact,

I got to talk to my brother court just about every day, just about every day he would call it was

awesome. But we didn't really talk about deep things. Because I was going through some really

stupid financial stuff. And now here's the part where I say in January, and I don't mean to be

quite so rambly. But in January of 2024, our cousin died of a sudden massive heart attack.

And I had one of the most beautiful conversations I think I could ever have with someone. And it was

very it felt like how could I even do this. But as I told my brother, because he was with the rest

of my family, my youngest brother and my parents in Florida, they were coming back that day. And

after they were on the plane, I had a conversation with court. And here was here was the great

confession. And it was court. I love you. I am so sorry that I have been not telling you things

about my life, because I felt embarrassed and ashamed and all the things. I said, I love you

with all of my heart. I, I want so much to have deeper conversations with you. And I'm sorry that

I've kept it surface and only wanted to hear about your stuff. I touched my mic. But he said, and it

was so beautiful. The response was, Oh, Tif, I totally understand. I love you so much. Don't

worry about it. And we will have them. And for a couple months, we had some amazing, you know,

they were beautiful. And then in February, one of our cousins died. And she was 48. And she had

Down syndrome. And, and I don't even know how to say that. I think that's but I and she,

by all accounts, had a beautiful life. And you know, that's and I, I'm so happy. And yet,

it was so strange to me that people would say, Well, she lived to be 48. And that's fair. And

I just thought that's not a long time at all. I wanted her to live longer. I wanted her to

be having her best life longer. And then my own beloved brother, who was 48.

As far as everyone knew, he he took better care of himself than anyone I knew he had a schedule

for the seasons for working out, you know, took vitamins, but there was things.

And again, I know I'm kind of bringing a mishmash, but it's like all of these things,

right? Like, here comes the wave of horrid feelings, because on both sides of our family,

we do have heart issues. And, and it, it was so hard to, like, how could he die of a heart attack?

How could how could that happen? And the why? Why? Why? The day we found out

that day was the day we found out that another cousin who's only two months. Yeah. He's a month

younger than my youngest brother. He was dying of cancer. And he died a couple months later.

And I didn't really get to spend time with him. And, and I had a much better, more prepared,

like timeline to say, but it just comes out the way it comes out sometimes. And at the end of

December, another cousin, my cousin, Jennifer, who is just beautiful angel, she passed away from

cancer. And you've had so much grief in your life. And there's, there's more, you know,

but that's just, so I am here today to unpack a bit of some things that came up for me

when my brother Court died. And I think the shock was, I couldn't even describe it. And if

I were to say one first thing, I can understand how if someone hears that another person has passed

away, has died, that it can go one of two ways. They can either be there for you or not there

for you. And there could be a lot of judgment, you know, like how could so-and-so, especially

if you see it on a peripheral, but all I can say is you just don't know what you don't know.

And you, and it's just, it's just hard to, it's hard to understand how, like, how can you be

there for everybody all the time? Well, you can be compassionate all the time. You can't

necessarily be there to support people all the time, but you can always be compassionate.

And I think this is one of the things that really gets me about what I call magical thinking.

I hope this is okay to talk about on your podcast, Tif. I happen to be a nihilistic atheist,

and a lot of people hear that. They're like, oh my goodness, you must be so cynical. I'm like, no,

I just, I live in a world, the way that I see things is that the universe is chaotic and there

is no rhyme or reason other than, you know, like physics rhyme or reason. Like I don't,

I'm not particularly spiritual. I'm not, I don't ascribe to any sort of religions. And I have a

lot of religious friends and it's, I don't have a problem with it. But for me, it just doesn't

make sense because there is so much grief and there is so much pain. And I see people trying

to make meaning out of it. And I see them doing more damage than good. You know, we desperately,

we want to create meaning. We're pattern makers. You know, we always want to feel like there's a,

there's a justification for pain and there often isn't. And when we don't accept that there often

isn't a justification for pain, we can do things like say, oh, well, they must have deserved it.

Or, you know, there's, there's people can, can do very cruel things, not because they're trying

to be cruel, but because they're trying to make meaning. They're trying to make sense of the

universe. And I, I understand that need. I do. I also think that we have to be very careful about

the way that we phrase these things because we can do a lot of damage to people who are just in pain

and all they need is a, that sucks. I'm sorry for your loss. That's all they need. They don't need

a lecture about how they're supposed to handle it. They don't need any of that. They just need

someone to go. We may never know why we may never, you know, and, and it's not fair and that's okay.

It's okay that it's not fair, you know, and that's hard. That's hard to accept. That's hard to hear

from. Yes. It's hard to hear and it's hard to accept, but I think, I think it's the only way

to be truly compassionate because there is so much pain and horrible feelings and, and, and violence

in the world. And if we try to create this little rose colored universe where everything makes sense

and only bad people have bad things happen to them. At, you know, at some point you're going to

do a lot of damage because that's just not, it's just not the way the world works. And, you know,

you can say God works in mysterious ways. That's fine. I'm okay with that because that's a mystery

and we don't understand it and that's fine. But trying to make sense of it, like trying to make

someone deserve something bad that's happened to them. No one deserves that period. I don't care

how, you know, rude or, you know, inconsiderate you are, or even mean you are. There are certain

things that human beings just don't deserve and they go through all the time. No one deserves

huge amounts of pain. No one deserves to have their life cut short. No one deserves that.

And I get really angry with people who, and I understand that it's because they're just trying

to make sense of their world, but I'm kind of like, if you're, you're only allowed to do those

kind of things if you do no harm, you know, and if you're going to harm someone else, then,

then don't do it. That's kind of how I feel about that.

Well said. I am, I am spiritual. I, I do, I do believe in, and how do you say it, you know,

God, spirit. And also, and also, I, I find it very strange that we are told so many different

things about how we got here and what we're here for. And one of them being that, okay,

and here's some of the, well, you came down here and you, like, you specifically chose your mom

and dad, you specifically chose them to use specific lessons and you came down here. And

I've got a couple questions on that because I can't tell you how many people I've talked to

that were like, even if we have been told that we're like, you know, I signed up for this,

really? Like we came on the planet at this time for the what now?

And I mean, you are, you and I are reasonably lucky. How do you say that to a child who was

abused? How do you say that they chose their parents? See, exactly. Like that's, that's,

so I, I can't, and I find it and now going through, going through a level of grief that

I was not prepared for. And I know, I'm not sure that you could be prepared. And in fact,

um, a lovely person that I I've talked to that her brother died through an illness. And we just

said, basically it's, it, it, it didn't matter if someone left suddenly or if someone left

slower, real, it's just still, it's always hard. It's always hard. It's always going to be hard.

And when I, I, for a time, and again, I'm doing my best to, um, cause again, I had,

I had a lovely, like lyrical storyline on this, but then that just all got chopped up. But,

um, I got to a point where I felt I had a temporary, I had temporary Tourette's syndrome.

And I'm not saying that to be funny. I could not stop swearing. I just, it just could not.

And I mean that with loving reverence to, to people who have Tourette's syndrome, because

not being able to control. Um, I said so many, I said the F word so many times. I just, it just,

I would just shout it out, just out loud at just certain, certain moments. And,

and at this time when my brother Court died, I could not,

you know, there wasn't anything to, as you say, you know, the, as people might say, sugar coat it,

you know, like, or try to find the silver lining, what silver lining is. And what I came up was it

effing sucks. It's effing sucks. Yeah. That was my mantra. It just, there was nothing. You could

not console me. I cannot be, it's just, and I said that and I came up with that because

what do you say to someone when someone dies? And I am feeling the smallest form of gratitude that

I never tried to say any of the things all I could say to people was, I am so sorry. I don't

know what to say. I am so sorry for your loss. That was what I said. And now I've added to it

and I just say, I hope it's okay for me to say it effing sucks. And that has gotten a pretty

actually, um, it's got an interesting response and that people have really responded to it.

I went to, um, a, a funeral and this beautiful angelic girl who had lost her parents. She,

I came up to her and, and I, I gave her a hug and she looked at me and she smiled and she said,

and I did say, I said, Oh honey, I love you so much. I am so sorry. I wish I had anything to,

any words I could say to you. And she said, and you know what? It effing sucks. Like that came,

you know, she didn't say effing, she said it, but it just, and, and I just, I, I, in that moment,

thought, wow, having permission to say that because what upsets, what has upset me

so much has been the people, let me tell you how I feel and how you're going to feel about this.

And there have been so many instances and then they get compounded by the stuff I've heard other

people say that I didn't realize, as you said, how damaging they are until you're, because I'll,

I'll just back up and say, you know what? I would rather be in, and I'm not, I'm doing better.

I would rather have horrible finances, have my life be absolutely whatever, because the thing

I was able to lean back on was, Hey, but my family's healthy. So what do I care? You know,

like life is great. And then when court died, well, that's gone. And I, and hearing people

say stuff like things happen for a reason. Now, or I guess I'm just going to go into just a few

things, people that I would recommend. Don't say to someone who someone they love has died.

Please don't say everything happens for a reason. Please don't say, even if they had been, well,

they're not suffering anymore. Yes. We are. I get that. And maybe there's some things that people

like, well, what's wrong with saying that? Or I say that all the time. Okay. Well, I mean,

it depends on how much the person was suffering. You know, I mean, I would say that to someone who

was, who had been suffering for many years. I would say that because my dad, I had the privilege of,

of providing end of life care with my sister for my dad. And he was miserable the last three years

of his life. And it was, it was an, at least he's not suffering anymore then, but you got to be

careful. Don't assume. Well, I appreciate how, thank you. So this is again, why I wanted to talk

to you about this. Cause I appreciate as, as I talk things out loud and different perspective,

I think also tonality. Oh yeah. There's a challenge. Yeah. There's a challenge because

I actually just learned at a workshop that most of the time, pretty much the vast majority of time,

we do not hear fully our tonality. Like most of the time we don't hear it at all.

And I was really glad I learned that kind of wish I'd learned that several years ago,

but that's okay. Just from a scientific, like fascinating standpoint,

because there's a difference saying, you know, I'm so, I'm so sorry.

It it's, you know, they're, they're not suffering anymore as opposed to say, well,

they're not suffering anymore. So what are you crying about? I mean, there are just, it's amazing.

You know what the difference is. You can hear your tonality, but it requires an amount of self

awareness and presence. And I think that's the thing is people just want to be pat. They just,

they just want to, they just want to get comfortable again. They don't want to deal with you.

And, you know, it is this kind of, this, this kind of social agreement that we don't talk

about anything, you know, too deep or too serious. So when someone comes with real raw emotions,

some people just try to shut them down as quickly as possible. And that can be one of the things you

can say, at least they're not suffering anymore. Let's start, let's talk about something else.

Let's talk about something nice and happy and surface level. If you allow yourself to just

connect with the person first, make eye contact, breathe with them. Don't rush to say anything.

And even if they're not speaking, just listen to them first, listen to their energy,

listen to their body, take them in, get connected. Chances of you saying something wrong are very

low at that point. It's when we were speaking without thinking about them. We're not checking

in with them. We're not connecting with them in any way. We're just going, I want this conversation

to be over. And I'm going to say whatever I have to, to try and get it to be over and to move on

as quickly as possible. That is what most people do. And so if you can just connect, just, just

take a few seconds, take them in, look at them, look them in the eye, connect, breathe with them,

get present. And then speaking from your heart, you're probably not going to say the wrong thing.

And even if you do, if you say something that could potentially be triggering, either you'll

say it in a way that isn't, or you'll see it in their face and you'll be able to correct it really

quickly, you know, because you're connected with them. The problem is, is that we are so scared

of emotions. We're so scared of our emotionality. We are so scared of negative emotions as a society

in general, that people just want to run away. They want to shut it down. And this is, I think,

is what is sick with our society, because you cannot, you cannot connect on a human level with

people if you, if you're committed to that surface level. I mean, that's, now that I say it out loud,

obviously you can't, you know, we, human beings, we're, we're, we're feeling emotional beings.

And why are we walking around, insisting on only conversing, only interacting with

the surface, not really interesting level of people to keep ourselves safe. I don't want

to live a safe life. I want to live an alive life. I want to live a connected life. I want to actually

experience the people that I have in my life. And sure, on some days you can't handle it. You're

dealing with your own thing. It's not that that's not okay. Of course that's okay. You need to have

emotional boundaries. But I think most of the time people are just trying to stay comfortable.

And the thing is though, when you're walking around feeling comfortable,

you're also walking around at like 20% sensation. You're not feeling, you're not alive. You're just

going through the motions. You're, you're an automaton, an autopilot, just marking time.

You're not living life. So what's the point? Can I, can I, can I read something to you

quickly? I would love it. No, read it slowly. I'll read it slowly. So I, again, I have had

my version of grief, but I also want to, you know, I've, I've had a lot of depression and

suicidal ideation and that kind of thing in my life. And and most of my friends,

us, us emotional delinquents kind of tend to come together. And my family wasn't very good

at dealing with that kind of stuff. But my mom gave me a little pocketbook of The Prophet by

Khalil Gibran when I was a teenager. And that book helped a lot. There's a couple of particular,

certain particular poems that really helped, but I just wanted to read this. I'm not going to read

the whole thing, but so if you don't know The Prophet, it's it's a bunch of little, little

poems on different different areas of life. And this one is on sorrow, on joy and sorrow. Sorry.

Actually, I'm going to, I'm going to start from the beginning. So then a woman said,

speak to us of joy and sorrow. And he answered, your joy is your sorrow unmasked. And the self

same well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears. And how else

can it be? The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.

Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?

And is not the lute that soothes your spirit the very wood that was hollowed with knives?

When you are joyous, look deep into your heart, and you shall find that it is only that which

has given you sorrow that is giving you joy. When you are sorrowful, look again into your heart,

and you shall see that that in truth, you are weeping for that, which has been your delight.

And I there's more, but that's all I want to say, because it's so I think, we try to we try

to separate the emotions, but like, I'm only going to experience happy emotions. You can't.

Human beings are complicated, our emotions are intertwined, and it is impossible to separate

them completely. If you're going to be an emotional, alive person, joy, and sorrow, and

grief, and love, and all of those things, they are, they are the same thing. Because if you didn't love

someone, you wouldn't grieve them. And it is so important to remember that when we are going

through pain, it is because we are capable of joy. And the other way around. That really helped me

because I could understand the need to carve the cup, you know. And it was painful, but it was,

it felt necessary. And I think we're so complex. And this is what I think of as joy is not,

you know, happiness versus sadness. Joy is that the experience that exquisite pain of being alive.

That is joy is for me, it's that it's that experience of living, of feeling itself.

For me, that's, that is a lot of what joy is for me. And I think if we can allow ourselves to

to accept all of our emotions, and to honor all of them, because they're all telling you something,

and they're all part of the human condition. And if we can see them in others, without being

threatened. I don't know why someone else's pain is going to threaten you, or someone else's bad

mood. If you, yes, we're compassionate. And yes, we're empathetic. But you should have worked on

yourself enough to not be completely derailed by someone else having a bad day. What if they were

having an awful day and you connected with them? And by connecting with them, you both,

it eased their sorrow a little bit. Shouldn't that make your day so much better?

We don't have to be worried about people bringing us down all the time.

We don't need to worry about people ruining our day. We can let people in.

And if letting someone in to your emotional state on a normal day, you know, obviously we have

fragile days. But if letting someone in completely derails your emotional state, you have work to do,

because you are not an adult. We need to be fully emotionally realized beings. And we need to accept

that we are going to cry, and we are going to grieve. And we are going to get angry. And we

are going to get sad. And we are going to feel joy and bliss and gratitude. And those are all

equally important. That's my little rant.

Well, I tell you, there was a lot there. Thank you. And thank you for sharing that poem.

Yeah.

And it's beautiful. For me, joy is the feeling of everything. It's all the feels. Joy is all the

feels. And, you know, having grown up in a big family, Christian family, happy to say that, you

And also, I feel in, and I'm going to really broaden it out to society, I might start with

American society, that we have a horrible grief culture. I'm just going to say it right now.

It sucks. How about it effing sucks? It really does.

I feel like that is the slogan for this episode.

It effing sucks.

Mm hmm.

I've seen, I had to dig, I had to dig. I admit, I do appreciate social media, seeing things,

mainly on Instagram. And people who are helping others specifically with grieving, because

I felt very lost. And I think that that's, I just wonder why, why does it have to be that way?

Now, I'm not saying it gets to a, oh, we have a nice, oh, someone died. And you go through these

steps. And everything is, I'm not saying that. However, there are a few things it would have

been nice to know. Just to know how to, and mainly to help understand what other people are going

through in a general sense. Because if you go through it yourself, well, that is just a whole

different, it's just a whole different game. And I've said it before, and I'll say it many times,

I would have rather been the blissfully ignorant, or maybe not so blissfully at times,

ignorant mess that I was, and still have my brother. Like, it's hard, even sometimes to

hear people say, when my spouse died, or when this, but now, and it's just my interpretation,

but it's just, it's just hard, because I just think, well, that's great that you grew in all

of that. And I don't want to grow. I don't want to, my, my happy ever after is shattered for this

lifetime, thank you. He died early. He died suddenly. I don't have him here. And it effing

sucks. But also, I am still here. And I, I, I'm living, or am I alive? And I just find it,

it's been interesting to process how to keep on having great days. And the best that I can say it

that over time, but that's another thing too, even with someone who,

talking to someone who lost their spouse, like 20 years ago, and, and they just say,

oh, just give it time. And I'm just like, I hear that from people. And it's very hard, because all

I can say is for me, now my life is on a different track. Like it was on a track. Absolutely. The

death happened. And, and depending on who it is, and when and where and those things,

you either are a little off, or maybe the path, I could say you're on the path.

And either you go on a slightly different path, or you are an entirely different path,

entirely different path. And there, there are great days still for me to be had and joy,

and love and laughter. And also, it is on a different path. It can't, can't ever be the way

it was. Well, and I think that's what grief is, is accepting that your life will never be the same.

And it's not that there isn't another happily ever after for you, because happily ever after

isn't a once off thing. There will be a happily ever after for you. It won't be the one that you

were expecting. And I think, I believe that our lives get shattered, often more than once,

multiple times as we live. And everything, you know, you're like, how can I carry on?

I'm not the person I was yesterday. And I don't think that's, in itself, I don't think that's

bad. It's traumatic. And you know, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that tragedy is good at all.

I think it's neutral. I think it's just it is what it is. And I think one of the beautiful

things about humans is how resilient we are. It is very important to grieve, and to acknowledge

that grief, because if we don't, we hold on to it forever. And we never, we never grow.

And I don't think we ever let go of the people who are important to us. I think we integrate them,

and we learn to make that grief a part of us, and part of our new lives. And we reshape our path,

and we find a new path, and we find a different happy ever after. Not the same. And I don't think

you can compare these things like apples to oranges, you know. But at the same time, I do think

that, and it's easy for people, you know, like, when it's been 20 years later, and they have

found their happy again, it's easy to kind of pat go, oh, we'll give it time. Because they're,

they're there. And they're in their new happy ever after. And they want to console you. They

want to be like, it's going to be okay. But the point is, it doesn't feel like it's going to be

okay now. And it's okay to feel like it's not going to be okay. Even if you know it is. It's okay to

feel like it's not. And rushing someone in that process is doing them an injustice. Because we

need, and everyone takes a different amount of time. And everyone does it differently. And

everyone shapes their life in their own way. But it's important to honor that. Not to hold on to

it. Not to, not to stop your life. But it is important to grieve what you thought you had.

And that is as true. And I'm not putting these on the same level. But that is as true when someone's

heart is broken. Or when you lose somebody or you know, whatever the big life event is,

a resetting of self is resetting of self. And it is important to grieve what you thought was going

to be the future. Because that is no longer the future. And you have to integrate that you have

to accept that in order to move on. So I think, you know, people mean well. But they don't remember.

It's difficult to remember that pain. I mean, even now, here, and I know that I've been,

I have been depressive and suicidal ideation for most of my life, more than half of my life.

And even that, even knowing that I'm finding it hard to bring up that feeling right now. Because

that's not where I am right now. And it's a difficult feeling. It's not something I want to,

not something I really want to try out. So it's something that's very difficult to relate to

on like a really deep level. Because I'm not feeling it at this moment. And even though I know

that, you know, I'm very familiar with it. I can't bring it up right now. I mean, I'm sure I could

if I tried hard enough, but I don't want to. But you know, so it's it was a when we're interacting

with someone who's going through something, even if we've gone through it, that distance between

where they are and where we are. I think it's important that we acknowledge that and not just

kind of go, Oh, well, it'll be fine. Acknowledge that they're there somewhere that you maybe can't

comprehend. Even if you've experienced it, you may not be able to comprehend it in this moment.

Or, you know, you may not be capable of feeling it right now. And that's fine. But acknowledge that.

I think it's all about we all we just want everyone to be the same as us. We want everyone

to feel we want to be so comfortable. And yeah, it's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay to not

know what to say. It's okay to just sit and breathe and cry with someone. It's okay to just

hold their hand. It's okay to just go. That effing sucks. I can't help you. I wish I could.

But I can be here and I can listen. Is that enough? And it's okay to not be enough

when someone is grieving and it's okay to not fix them. In fact, it's your job to not fix them.

It is your job to not fix them. Everyone hear that? We want to fix everybody.

If you try to fix them, you're taking away the journey that they have to go through in order

to be whole again. Yeah, we want to make it better. And that's a beautiful thing. We want

to fix things. We want to we want to care for people. I'm really glad that you've well, you

brought up so many things. And if I were to say, having my faith shattered when Court died,

I will say absolutely. And that is very hard. And again, one of the reasons I so appreciate

our talk today is because it's not that I thought I had anything figured out,

but there's some raw stuff under there still. And dare I say, and here the tears are coming,

it's almost embarrassing to me. And I'm not saying, oh, well, a certain amount of time you

will, because I can only liken it to a tsunami when the grief, like ding, ding, ding. And here

it is. And this might be a bit of a, I'm not sure if it's a non sequitur, but I was at a

because I'm just thinking about the stuff is coming up and I'm like, what? I haven't processed

this yet. What is it ever? What is it ever going to get to a point? Because I went to Hay House has

a writer's bootcamp, which I highly recommend. It's awesome. And there is a Hay House author

and her name is Nancy Levin. And she's amazing. And she gave a quote from a woman named,

I hope I'm saying her name right, Nadia Boltz Weber. And it's right from the scar and not the

wound. And yes. And I get that. They say that to speakers too. Oh, okay. Cool. And right now I

feel like I'm speaking from a wound and I'm writing from a wound. And so I appreciate anyone who's

listening to this for, I just wanted to start a conversation because along the lines of,

thank you for talking about being comfortable. It's almost as if people want to wrap grief up

in this little attractive package and you can't do it. Grief is so ugly, messy, disgusting,

gross. It's hideous. It's abhorrent. It's obnoxious. And it effing sucks. And,

and I really, again, would have rather never had to have gotten to that point

where I can see things from a different, but just to be able to understand that people,

as, as you so eloquently put, like, do not try to fix people, let people grieve,

give them permission to go through what they need to go through. And, and if, however, if,

if you are, if you are a follower of a faith or if you're not, there are still,

I feel many beautiful things that you can do for people. And thank you for bringing,

like, I think the number one, and I am still learning this is to ask.

And also, I truly want to make sure to say this. I have a very, I have a very insightful friend

who, when she found out, she did reach out to me and I found this to be so absolutely

amazing. She said, Tif, I love you with all of my heart. I cannot help you. Like she just,

I can't. And when she said, I can't be there for you. I said, I'm so sorry. She was going

through her own. She is going through grief on her own. And she said, but please know that I

am sending you love. I absolutely love you. And if you truly need to call someone to talk to,

yes, of course. But I thought that was so wonderful because I think it's a wonderful

thing to say to people what I can offer. And if someone can't offer something, I mean, that

meant so much to me because she was brave enough to say, I got nothing. I just got,

it's just, it ain't there, but I love you. And those were not mutually exclusive. It's,

I absolutely love you. And also I can't be here for you. And maybe that brings me to another,

um, if I were to say that to those of us who are grieving and it is a challenge, I know

up on all the other channels, because people are like, Oh, call me when you need something.

And they're not doing it because they're being flippant. They just, they truly like,

there's so many people now you might find out a couple of people are just saying it to say it,

but there are people who are, you know, when you need something, I'm here,

please do your very best to take them up on that. Because my, my best friend, Terri,

my bestie Terri, uh, with an I, and she lives about 10 minutes from me. I don't know how I

would have survived, how I would have survived without her being there. And that was quite,

and here's the tears, quite the burden that I put on her.

And I would also like to say, if possible, if you do mean it and you say, you know,

I don't know how to help, but call me if you need anything. I would say, if at all possible,

when someone is in deep in grief or, or deep in depression or deep in anything,

it's very difficult to think of what you need. Yeah. So if you could say, I have the impulse

to do this, or I would really like to do this thing, but I don't want to impose, could I do

one of these things for you? Or, or is there something else I could do? Give them some ideas.

Because also, you know, people say, call me if you need anything, but then you're like,

yeah, but I do need this thing, but it's, I don't think it's what they meant. And you know,

it can get, it can get so you can get so much in your head. And then you often just don't reach

out because the thing that you need isn't really, they didn't actually offer. And you're not sure

so much. So instead kind of go, look, I want to help. I don't know how to help. These are my ideas

of how to help. Are any of those useful? Do you need space? Do you want me to call you every day

and just check in? Do you want me to leave you alone for a week? Like, what do you want? How

can I help? Give them some suggestions because it is so hard. It's kind of putting the onus on

them. It's making them do more work. Like, oh God, now I have to think of what will happen,

what might help. And that is so much work. So give them some ideas. Like,

this is what I think would help, but I don't know. I'm not you. Would any of these things be a good

idea or, or, or is there something else that you can think of? You know, if you can give them some

ideas, it really, it takes the load off of them a little bit. And that's really what you want to do.

That's what you're trying to do. If you're a good friend, you're trying to take the load

off a little bit. So take the mental load off too, that it can help so much.

And sometimes all someone needs is like a text message. Sometimes they really want some space,

but they just want to know they're loved. So you could just text them, I love you every day.

You don't know what it is and everybody is different. So ask and be open to the thing

that you wanting to give not being the right thing as well. I have a few friends, bless them.

They're wonderful people, but I have a few more than one friend who they want to help in their way.

And if you don't want that, and I was like, but I thought this was about helping me.

And then it becomes a fight because they're like, well, I wanted to do this nice thing for you. And

you're like, but that's not going to help me. That's, you know, so it's not about you. It's

about them. If it truly is about them, listen to them, give them suggestions, but listen,

because yeah, that can be, it can turn into a fight really fast when you're the one who is

already so low and they're trying to impose their idea of what might help to you. That's not always

the right thing to do. No. And then as you say, conversely, when you give options, when you just

offer, even just to say, I don't know, but I'm here. That is so faith affirming. Talk about

reinstilling faith in, in, in someone's heart. And, and I, I so appreciate, so appreciate this

conversation and you know what, I think we might need to carry it over. So, so I think,

may I, may I make a little suggestion? Absolutely. I feel like we've spent this entire,

not this entire episode. I feel like this episode has very much been about honoring your feelings,

how to help someone who is in distress, what not to do. I would love in our next episode to talk

about how you can help yourself when you are in this kind of place, because we've talked a lot

about, you know, honoring your emotions, which is extremely important, but it is only step one.

And so let's talk about what comes next. So when you are ready to start looking at maybe

making some healthy changes or you want to start things moving or whatever,

let's talk about that in the next episode, because this episode has been very much about the wound

and advice for people who are experiencing people in distress, which is extremely important.

I would like to talk about how to, like, how to, how to start getting yourself,

when you're ready, how to start getting yourself. I like that. I might have a couple other things

to wrap up from, but yes, I like, I like the, there might be just a couple more what not to

do's that I forgot, but I love, what can I say, Danielle? But I, I'm still in her wound. I'm in

my scar. You're in your wound. Right. And also I love that. And thank you. That is definitely

excellent for the next episode. Wonderful. All right. Well, we'll see you in the next one.